SourcererKhadgar (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

This is also the reason why they say that the laws of nature must be bent in order for volition to work - to them, if volition is real, then that means that a man can make a choice which does not come out as the solution of the abovementioned equation.

SourcererKhadgar (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

I think that what determinists attempt to argue is that given the state of the universe and your mind at the moment just before you begin making a choice, it is already determined what your choice will be. Going back in time from that point will only complicate the equation, but the end result will be the same. Hence they claim that your volition is an illusion, because your choices are already predetermined in this way.

trick0171 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

Free will is not viable in either a deterministic or indeterministic system. It is a non-sensical construct the mind creates from not seeing the complex causes of our thoughts. It defies all logic and denies natural science evidence.

trick0171 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

Option B is determines by previous causes. And assuming that option B was not determined by the previous causes, leads us to another thing that does not supply free will either. That being option B was a random event. I do not believe in randomness (no real evidence for it like there is for causality), but IF it does exist, it does not support this free will concept either. (More)

trick0171 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

So assuming we can rewind time back to the point right before you chose option B (for example), you cannot now choose options A or C, as your brain state(and all of the previous causes that lead up to it) will be entirely the same as it was the first time, right before your so called choice. Without another causal factor to change your mind, you can only choose option B (even though it always seems like you have options A, B, & C to choose from). (More)

trick0171 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

Those are the parts of the brain that we make a perceived choice, not an actual choice. Again you are confusing the illusion with the reality. The reality is, given 3 "choices"- A, B, & C ...and given everything that lead up to the choice and your brain state at the time due to those leading ups, you can only "choose" one and the others are no longer options but illusions of options. (More)

tomcampbelltunes (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

The issue, is not whether we can choose, but what enables us to. That we make choices does not prove free will. What is it that causes us to make decisions? Our choices themselves may be predetermined. We don't know whether we exert any extra-physical influence over our decisions or if every choice is the product of inherited biology and our interactions with other biological 'products' (humans, animals, envirnment).What do you reckon?

ismaelvis (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

part 4 A girl threatened me that she would slap me in the face if i mentioned the word "prerequisite" one more time. People really have strong feelings about this issue. mabye because the theory is in conflict with their survival instinct. (my opinion) Good luck and google the internet to find out more.

ismaelvis (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

part 3On the other hand, i dont believe my understanding of free will/determinism is 100% worthy of believe, in every detail. Might been things i havent thougt trough well enough. I discovered ways/ideas of determinism many years before i ever read or heard about it from others, so its quite natural to me, and I have my own strong opinions about it. Sometimes people get angry/bothered when i mention my ideas, other find them amazing.

ismaelvis (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

part2 If you truly want to be a determinist, you have to accept _MANY_ DIFFERENT new ways to understand why there is humans, why there is no meaning to life, and mechanical cumulative effects(thinking about what you mentioned with your hard drive access.)